official website of the FOXHUNTERS HALL OF FAME

Heath Howell

Jun 30, 08 - 2:33 PM

Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Grand Total Points system:
This choice will be an improvement over the HGA. The value of the observations of the field judges are lost when you use the HGA system. 500 points between 1st place and second place speed and drive becomes 5 HGA points. That never made sense. It will also accommodate all situations that can come up at a trial. Have 15 hours of running and the running will pick the winner. Have 15 minutes of running and the hunting will pick the winner.
One thing that must be considered is that the old men in Kentucky never intended for the points to be added together. They didn’t calibrate the awards made in the field to equal the value that foxhunters place on the trait. In the HGA system you can give 1 point for a Hunting score and 1,000 points for a first place crossing and it would still work out when you sort the classes and give them the HGA points. Under the Grand Total Points system we will have to make sure the value of the work is calibrated correctly across the classes. To me this means that Hunting is going to have to be reworked. Jumping a piece of game should be worth at least as much as a 1st place crossing, don’t you think?

Endurance
This change is a good move as well. I hate to see the Endurance class be a mirror image of the Speed and Drive class. If we believe there is something to the idea of Endurance then lets really make it mean something. Don’t let it just be a way to double the Speed and Drive points in an HGA system.
Now, here is the problem I have with 10-20-30. It constitutes a reduction in the overall percentage of Endurance points awarded. The average percent has always been 25%.
20-25-30, the average is 25. 10-20-30, the average is 20. I don’t think we need to reduce the value of the Endurance class. I would rather see 10-25-40. Then the average would be 25% and it will provide a greater chance for a hound to show out the last day and be able to place in the hunt. Those hounds that put up 500-600 points the last day of a trial have always been superstars. Lets give them a proper place in the results.

Track Running
Trailing is worthless. We need another class for the Running Hound. This class will reward the hound with a good nose. That is what we all want. A hound that has a good enough nose to run a track at a high rate of speed without constantly bobbling it.

5 Minute Intervals
This will reward the hounds that stay in the running and make a contribution to the race. 5 minutes is plenty long enough in a fox pen. It will really separate the good hounds from the great hounds.
Something that has to be considered is that this will double the possible speed and drive points that a hound can score per day. In order to be balanced you would have to double the possible Hunting points as well. I will make a proposal on this later.

Scoring First 5 Hound in Crossing
At first I liked this idea but know I think I am against it. Sometimes it would work good but there are times when game is low that you will have 75 hounds in one race. In these situations I would want to get as many hounds scored as possible. Now, if there are lots of races going on and no more than 10 hounds in a race then I agree with stopping at 5. The judge should have the choice whether to score more or less hounds depending on the situation.

Steve Ducote

Jun 30th, 2008 - 2:42 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Heath when there are 75 dogs in a pack, the ones that can hold the front end ahead of this kind of pack, are the ones you really want to know about.
Whitey had a good idea though, why not score them 35-30-25-20-15-10-5 that way you would score 7 dogs and the and the 5th place and 7th place would not have the same pts

Lenny Crowe Dog Bluff knls

Jun 30th, 2008 - 4:05 PM

Re: Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Im not crazy about the grand total system as it to me is a direct reflection of speed & drive which makes up most of the grand total points.

When I started participating in the masters hunts what really sold me was that the SD hound got rewarded alot more in masters hunts which I agree they needed to. If a hound hit 1200 points and won the sd the hound needed to be more than 7th HGA. In the Masters Rules the hound is recognized as a SD Champion in the horn for winning the SD and his or her points are also enhanced by the endurance class in HGA. I sold the MAsters rules to the hunters in my area that it is an HGA system and they gave it a try and now SC is probably the bissgest supporter the masters has if we base it on pure entry we got more hounds in a years time that run in Masters hunts than any other state in the country if we dont we are a close 2nd.

I will always support the masters.

I am in favor of adding trailing and hunting to one class, elimate endurance and have a hunt. Why go throuh all the hoopla to have GTP when you can just go straight SD, we keep reference in if you got no running the Hunting will determine the winner when is the last time someone had a masters hunt and no running at all?

I personally like the current Masters rules and the National rules if they modify endurance then the system would be balanced especially with 10 HGA points seperation.

The new propasals are for the most part running rules we are getting so far away from our roots and are fixing to be only racing, I like racing it is fun, but I want the total package if the hound is worthy of being a champion, I think at times we are getting away from what a true hound should be.....

I look forward to running the Masters for years and years to come, if it turns into straight sd that is sugar coated so be it I will still go as I got so many good friends I like to see every year and it is a great hunt.

I also prefer one standard for all hounds to be measured I am not in favor of having Option A for this part of the Country and Option B for this group when a hound has CH in front of its name in the Horn I would prefer it to mean the same in SC as it does in LA....and if one hunt is GTP and another is HGA then it is apples and watermelons....

No need to cripple the freight train it is rolling.

be good

Lenny

Heath Howell

Jun 30th, 2008 - 2:47 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Hunting

Maximum Score:
1st hour - 30 pts
2nd hour - 40 pts
3rd hour - 50 pts
4th hour - 60 pts
5th hour - 70 pts

Scoring in the field:

Hound looking for game (as opposed to drifting, waiting for a race) - award 15 or 20 points at judges discretion

Hound working known scent of approved game - award 25 or 30 points at judges discretion

Hound jumps approved game - award 40 points

-----------------------
Under 5 minute intervals the max SD score is 2100 per day.
Under this Hunting system the max Hunting is 250 per day.

I think this would move us toward having multiple scores by many judges picking the winner of the class rather than having one judge picking the winner because he gave 25 points when everyone else was giving 15.

Heath Howell

Jun 30th, 2008 - 2:55 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Right, Steve, those are the best hounds but there is no way, by the way we score them, to tell the difference between a hound leading 75 and a hound leading 10.
Maybe we ought to have different classifications for the races we are scoring. The judge would need to mark on his pad whether the race was a major race or a minor race depending on the size. The Major race would get scored 40-35-30-25-20-15-10-5 while the Minor races get scored 30-25-20-15-10-5. That might be too much trouble.

Steve, I like Whitey's idea. No reason to give 5th and 7th the same credit. In a race of 100 hounds, 5th is a lot better than 7th.

Brian Evans

Jun 30th, 2008 - 3:04 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Heath,

I appreciate your input. Could you possibly contact the Rules Committee and forward to them these ideas? Fred can supply you with their addresses. Some of them do not frequent this website.

Thanks,

Brian

Heath Howell

Jun 30th, 2008 - 5:21 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Lenny, do you remember the Masters at Sandsifters? That would have been a good time for the Hunting hounds to win.
Here is my line in the sand. If the Masters goes to GTP and/or 5 minute intervals without doubling the possible points a hound can score in Hunting then I am out. That would be a S&D hunt in sheep's clothing. But, if a hunting hound can realistically score 150 points per day while the S&D hounds are scoring 500 then it will be balanced.
Add to that the Track Running class, which will be rewarding the truest of the running hounds, the ones with the nose to stay on the track, and you will have a more complete package than any set of rules the foxhunting world has ever seen.

I know my views are colored by my region and my experiences so it might not work out for everyone across the community. At the Alabama Open the other day there was a hound that scored 175 pts Hunting and another hound that had 1100 pts or so S&D. I think a GTP system would work down here.

I like your idea about throwing out Endurance all together. I would be happy with an HGA system that had 3 classes: S&D-(100-10), H&T-(100-10), and TR-(50-5). Break ties on Grand Total and be done with it.

Lenny Crowe Dog Bluff knls

Jun 30th, 2008 - 8:59 PM

Re: Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

I will try anything the majority thinks....I see lots of ideas and I like yours with the 10 pt intervals in hga....
thanks again for the stuff for the paint...

Lenny

Eric Emerson

Jun 30th, 2008 - 6:12 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Heath -- I think you're in the right ballpark re: increasing the points for hunting. Possibly even more should be availabe BUT a limit on how much ONE judge can award per hour. Hunting should be, like s&d, a consensus of different judges if it is to be meaningful.
Re: big packs vs. small packs -- what about starting at 7th place (5 pts) and working up to 35 pts. That way a pack of only three hounds would score 15-10-5.
That way, a knot of two or three hounds that are running 100 yards ahead of 20 others could still get their 35-3-25 but scores on small packs of two or three that get off by themselves are reduced, as they should be.

Steve Ducote

Jun 30th, 2008 - 6:13 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Heath would like to hear You and Lenny's spiel on endurance. Why would not want to see a dog that scores 350 1st day 400 second day 450 third day not be rewarded. He is going up in points because as other dogs begin to weaken he is gaining, don't understand why you;ll would be against it unless you are trying to penalize the faster tougher dog, and use hunting to level the playing field. If you are taking endurance out for that I am totally against that idea.
Don't use the idea that it is arrived from s^D and it is doubling the S&D because that is what endurance is the tougher ones doing it at the faster pace

Lenny Crowe Dog Bluff knls

Jun 30th, 2008 - 9:24 PM

Re: Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

endurance is a percentage of total points and the majority of total points come directly from the sd.

Hound 1 has
500-500-500

Hound 2 has
510=500-490

To me hound 2 isnt that much weaker than hound 1....

endurance used to be scored in the field not a mathematical percentage of sd....

I would like to say score endurance only the last hour of each day and determine how many points by how many by how many races the hound is seen in the last hour of the hunt every day...and if it is broke down give the hound endurance if the hound is looking for a peice of game or is starting a race...lol how about that idea ducto...

I like the endurance getting bigger every day but the catagory is tied directly to the sd the same way the endurace is tied to the hunt and trail and bigger sd scores in the nat rules....

If there was a way to score it with out haveing to use percentages from other catagories....

I will be glad to try gtp,5 min intervals, 5 dog scores in pack....heck every one would have the same chance...

As long as we can pick the best all around hound at the hunt Im for it..

Lenny

Heath Howell

Jun 30th, 2008 - 6:50 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Steve, I could stand to get rid of Endurance because it isn't a real score that was observed in the field. It is just a percentage that somebody decided to throw in the mix to swing the HGA in one direction or the other.
I like the hounds that get better as the hours get longer myself that isn't for everybody. Some hunters like to smoke you the first day. Daddy has always said he likes a hound to run best between the 3rd and the 8th hour of a night hunt and the second day of a three day field trial. There isn't anything about foxhunting that says a 1st place crossing in the first ten minutes of a hunt when all the hounds are fresh is worth less than a 1st place crossing in the last ten minutes when there are fewer hounds in the field and all of them are winded. I agree that if you have an Endurance class it ought to be graduated and weighted toward the end but I can take it or leave it. If it could be scored in the field I would love it, but the way it is now it is just math, not foxhunting.

Killam Hills Kennels(Scott Head)

Jun 30th, 2008 - 6:53 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Why not just leave well enough alone.

Cherry Dixon Kennels(Chris Patterson)

Jun 30th, 2008 - 7:01 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Everybody says they want a set of rules that will pick the best dog at a three day hunt but 5 out of ten three days I've been to 9 out of the best ten dogs there were scratched with less than 15 minutes to go when they were the only pack still really driving a piece of game and caught it with as little as 5 minutes left.They may have stopped after 14 hours and 45 minutes but that don't mean they were not the best.One maybe goes back hunting and 9 others place because they were piddlin and not in this race.If you are going to eliminate endurance why not just scratch the ones interferring with the race and make some kind of rule to let these slide.
Just my opinion.Chris

Cherry Dixon Kennels(Chris Patterson)

Jun 30th, 2008 - 7:06 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

P.S. I just think that one with the endurance to catch with 15 minutes to go should be given a dog biscuit or something,not scratched.

Andy Bedgood---Spring Hill Kennels

Jun 30th, 2008 - 7:14 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Several good ideas are being brought up here. Just like everyone else, some I personally like and some I don't. The one main thing I do like about the grand total points idea is that one judge will not be able to pick a winner with a single hunting or trailing score being given on the last day. I am not against seeing these scores being given at a hunt, but just not by one judge on the last day. If these are given, maybe the master of hounds need to bring it up for discussion before rewarding these points. The only thing about that would be the judges feeling that their integrity is being questioned. There are no perfect set of rules to go by, so what do you do? Make the best out what you got and enjoy yourself.

Heath Howell

Jun 30th, 2008 - 7:16 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Scott it is them LA boys that are wanting to change everything. I'm just trying to catch up with them.

...................

Nobody is actually going to propose getting rid of Endurance. I was just saying that I would go to a hunt without it and still feel like we are picking one of the best hounds.

David Bonner

Jun 30th, 2008 - 7:41 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

The only thing I would do is combine the Hunting and Trailing and make all categories go to 10pt increments. That way if there is nonstop running the speed and drive prevails and if the running is spotty and tons of Hunting/Trailing Scores come in that category prevails. Continue figuring endurance on a daily basis. This would ensure the rules would fit most scenarios of a field trial.

The Grand Total system is geared more for the speed and drive. I am for the speed and drive but we have to find something that finds the best overall hound without shafting a hound that doesn't get a hunting score. As far as the Track Running category, that is a complete waste of time in my opinion. Score the hounds running the game and not the ones hitting it in the road. this is the way the speed AND drive is supposed to be. Leave the intervals at 10 minutes and if the hound can run it that long let him earn it. that is what it is supposed to be about....earning the points. In my opinion the 5 minute intervals is a detriment to the track running hound and a blessing for the hounds that can't hold their game. We are supposed to strive to pick the best hounds, not the ones that can bushwack the best.

Heath Howell

Jun 30th, 2008 - 7:53 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

David, you might be a little mixed up on the intervals. If we set them at 10 minutes that doesn't mean we are rewarding hounds that can stay in a race for 10 minutes. It means we are rewarding a hound that got in one race for a few seconds during that 10 minute interval. For example, if you set them at 20 minutes you make it even easier for a hound to pop up for a few seconds a get his 35 points. The shorter the intervals the higher the reward for the hound that stays in the running.

Sky Scott

Jun 30th, 2008 - 8:09 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Scott...I agree with you 100%!
Sky

David Bonner

Jun 30th, 2008 - 8:29 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

The 5 minute intervals would allow a hound that is constantly swinging and hitting a pack to keep more scores. It won't lose those scores that are 5 minutes apart if the intervals are 5 minutes. The hounds that are running the game in the first place are then having to fight to get back to the front while the hound that hit it on them is gone with it has got to another crossing, possibly getting to keep another 35 points due to the 5 minute intervals. This is only helping the cut throat dogs. That's all.

David Bonner

Jun 30th, 2008 - 8:46 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

The intervals determine how many scores a hound can get in a day. The more intervals the more opportunities to score. Common sense tells you that. How does this hurt the hound that "pops up" as you call it? It doesn't. It helps them.

David & Lindsay Horton/Bad Fast Kennels

Jun 30th, 2008 - 9:12 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Amen David. We got rules that work leave them alone.

Hank Cranford

Jun 30th, 2008 - 9:28 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

I don't go to as many 3 days as a lot on here. So maybe be speaking out of turn a bit.

I think the edurance is pretty good the way it's figured - score more towards the end of the hunt and get rewarded even more - it rewards the endurance. Just came from a hunt where the dogs justly got the lions share of the endurance because they earned it later in the hunt.

I like the 5 minute times , in a pen. Any hound can cover any pen we all run in about 5 minutes, that's why I brought it up. The only negative I heard was the possibility of a dog scoring early and cruising. Maybe. But that could/can happen now. And the stronger dogs will have the same opportunity to score later. We just came from a hunt that if you didn't score early , and often from wire to wire , then you just weren't gonna make it.

The awarding the HGA points from the bottom up is a self cleaning thing as well. 4 hunting scores or 40 hunting scores - it works itself out. 1 trailing score or 10 trailing scores - it works itself out.

My 2 cents.

Lenny Crowe Dog Bluff knls

Jun 30th, 2008 - 9:30 PM

Re: Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

hank I could live with that also bottom up, 5 hunting hounds 50 hga points,,,,

Lenny

BUDDY WISE

Jun 30th, 2008 - 10:12 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

ONE QUESTION ---WHY CHANGE THE RULES THAT HAS BROUGHT THE FOX HUNTING THUR THE YEARS.
NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO OR HOW WELL THE HOUNDS DOES OR HOW WELL THE JUDGES SCORE THE HOUNDS THERE IS ALWAY SOMEBODY THAT FEELS CHEATED BY A SCORE WHERE IT IS HUNTING -TRAILING SPEED AND DRIVE OR ENDURANCE.
BOTTOM LINE IS SOMEBODY GONNA GRIPE,CRY OR START RUMORS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY FINISHED BEHIND AOTHER DOG.

MAYBE I READ A LIL DIFFERENT BUT TO ME THE RULES WE HAVE HAS ALWAY DONE WHAT THEY WERE MADE FOR AND WHY CHANGE THEM NOW.

ANOTHER THING A HONEST JUDGE WILL SCORE WHAT HE SEE'S AND FOLLOW WHAT THE RULE BOOKS SAYS.
IF A HOUND IS HUNTING THEN HE HAS TO SCORE HIM AS HUNTING OR TRAILING OR SPEEDING OR WHAT EVER HE IS DOING SIMPLY CAUSE THE RULE BOOKS SAYS SO.

AS THE OLE SAYING GOES ---- WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS THEN READ THE RULES --
SIMPLY KNOW FACTS.

THANKS BUDDY

Jamie Chatten

Jun 30th, 2008 - 10:32 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

some are never satisfied, leave the rules alone for awhile. a judge will need to go and take a course on how to judge a Masters hunt. your making it to confusing to keep up with all the changes. It's my opinion it won't fly in Canada, maybee by a select few! Good night and good luck.

Jamie

Heath Howell

Jun 30th, 2008 - 10:36 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

David, if that cutting and swinging dog is getting scored every five minutes than at some point you have to wonder if he isn't the one driving the game.

The way I see it you often have a hound driving the game staying in the pack, getting seen by every judge he goes past. Sometimes he will get a 1st place crossing but mostly he is getting 3rd, 4th, and on back because he is constantly getting cut on. That hound, the one driving the game, gets seen by 5 judges in 10 minutes and his highest score is 35 so that is what he gets.

Now, you have the cutter that runs down the road, slips in the front of the race and flys by the judge at the next crossing. He got one score in 10 minutes. It was a 35 point score and he kept it.

Both hound got 35 points during that interval. If it were 5 minute intervals the cutter still has his 35 but the driving hound is going to keep 2 of his scores. Maybe he keeps the 35 and a 25 within what would have been that same 10 minute interval. See what I mean?

What I was saying at the top is if you have a hound that is cutting the race and getting scored every 5 minutes then he might be the one that is driving the game. To get a score every 5 minutes you have to be in the race more than you are out of it and that is what we are trying to reward.

The shorter interval rewards the more consistent hound that stayd in the race and gets seen by the judges.

David Bonner

Jun 30th, 2008 - 10:45 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Heath what you said might make sense on a computer screen, but does it translate to the woods?

Heath Howell

Jun 30th, 2008 - 10:56 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

It always has over here. I can't speak for what goes on in Texas but the foxhounds I have seen don't defy common sense or logic. The ones running the game get more crossings than the ones running the roads. If you want the driving hounds to be able to seperate themselves from the cutters in the S&D class then you have to keep more scores, not less. If you have cutters over there that are getting seen in more crossings than the driving hounds then I don't know what to tell you.

BARRY HILTON

Jun 30th, 2008 - 11:14 PM

Re: Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

This **** is pretty comical. I think the hunters should run and the dogs sit and listen.

Heath Howell

Jun 30th, 2008 - 11:25 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Barry, no cussing on the message boards. Did you get the package I sent you? Pass that little trinket on to Chubby for me if you don't mind.

Larry Wise

Jul 1st, 2008 - 7:41 AM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Why Change what works now. the Masters have a computer program that cuts time to 1/3 of what it use to take to figure scored in a judges meeting. Does it work, if there a flaw in the program, according to all i have read there is no flaw in the program as it is now. i have hunted most of my life and Hounds have always been judged for Speed and drive, Hunting, Trailing and Endurance. Why change that, you go to Total Point system then change the Point System you changing the History of Fox Hunting. The Masters have come a long way through the years since it first started, But you go to changing rules and point systems each time a year or hunt comes around then you start losing hunters as they will get tired of changes, When all this is said and changed what will really be changed. THE HGA SHEET WILL HAVE HIGHER SCORES ON IT FOR PEOPLE TO LOOK AT. How many pens are they out there that a hound can run within 10 or 5 minutes that he can't be scored by 2 or more judges in a pen at any one given time. keep changing the rules and half the hunters that show up at a hunt will be thinking the rules are the same as they was last year then get disappointed to find out they have been changed again and get discouraged, i for one am not for changes every hunt. changed sometimes can be good for a business, but in fox hunting i don't think it is good would cause confusion for hunters to keep up with. LEAVE THINGS THE WAY THEY ARE. is somethings not broke then why change it to make it broke. i know the Masters wants to be the best in fox pen hunting. i know people hate changes but i think this would hurt the masters more than help it. Leave the History the way it is.

M. Jones

Jul 1st, 2008 - 9:43 AM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Thats exactly what they told Mr Fred before he started the Masters. Wow look what we would be stuck with if he had listened

Whitey Turner

Jul 1st, 2008 - 9:55 AM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

What is the first thing you go to in order to break a tie in the rules as they are now????

Tickridge Kennels (Mitch Beaman)

Jul 1st, 2008 - 11:50 AM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

While intentions are good on this post be careful how far you go because when you change how a dog is scored in the field you will for sure end the opportunity of dual run hunts!

Killam Hills Kennels(Scott Head)

Jul 1st, 2008 - 4:49 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Yes Fred has done a great job with the masters and no one can say different, but set some rules and let it be, don't change cause someone does not like the way the rules stopped his dog from winning. He went to the hunt knowing what the rules are so he should not have any complaints and if he does not like the rules then just stay home.

DAVID \"SPANKY\" MESSINA

Jul 1st, 2008 - 8:54 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

WELL TO ME THE RULES ARE FINE THE WAY THEY ARE BUT I DO SEE SOMETHING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP THAT I LIKE.FOR SCOREING DOGS IN A PACK I NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY A DOG IN SEVENTH OR EIGHT PLACE RECIEVED THE SAME POINTS AS THE FITH PLACE HOUND.NOW HEATH YOU YOU SAY THAT YOU COULD DO WITH OUT ENDURANCE . THIS IS MY THOUGHT A HOUND MAKES HIS OWN ENDURANCE IN THE FIELD ITS NOT JUST MATH OR A PERCENTAGE THAT WE COME UP WITH. IF YOU SCORE A HOUND BY GRAND TOATAL AS SOME ARE TRYING IT IN A CATAGORY THATS NEEDED IN MY BOOK. WHAT IF THE ENDURANCE WAS GIVEN TO JUST THE TOP TEN HOUNDS IN GRAND POINTS. THIS WOULD GIVE POINTS THAT COULD MAKE OR BREAK TIES. IT WOULD MOVE THE HOUNDS THAT GAVE IT THIER ALL THAT TOUGHEST DAY OF ALL THAT THIRD OR FOURTH DAY OF A HUNT.I THINK I WOULD BE FOR A GRAND TOATAL POINTS SYSTEM BUT IF A HUNTING SCORE WAS GIVEN MORE POINTS THE LAST DAY .WOULDN'T MIND IF IT WERE 100 POINTS PER OCCURANCE IF THE HUNTING CONDITIONS SO CALLED FOR IT. LIKE I SAID AT THE BEGINNING I LIKE THE WAY IT IS BUT SOME OF THIS IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.DONT REMEMBER WHO SAID THIS BUT IT IS TOO TRUE EVERY TIME SOMEONE GETS BEAT AT A HUNT THEY THINK THEY JUST GOT CHEATED SO BAD AND OLE SO IN SO THAT JUST QUIT ,THE FAMOUS NOT MY HOUND I KNOW THAT HOUND. WHEN PUT UNDER EXTREAM PRESSURE AS A HUNT WILL DO A HOUND IS PRONE TO DO THINGS HE WOULD NOT NORMALLY DO.THATS JUST THE PLAIN SIMPLE FACTS. IF YOU ONLY RUN IN HUNTS YOU NEED TO GO JUDGE ATLEAST ONE. AND REMEMBER THAT A FRIENDS HOUND AINT THE ONLY HOUNDS THAT MESS UP. THEY ARE IN FACT DOGS. EVEN IF THEY ARE OUR PRIDE AND JOYS ANY HOW GOD BLESS AND HAPPY HUNTING/RUNNING

bubba sharpe

Jul 1st, 2008 - 9:13 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

about the only thing i like about these changes is "the bottom feeding" of the categories,leave trailing alone also and if only one hound is rewarded for trailing let him get 10 HGA. that would solve all the whining about a hunting/trailing dog being rewarded by "one man" & winning a hunt scenario and after all thats what the complainers complain about..... TRUE or FALSE??? lets not try and change what "HOUNDS" were bred to do there too much trashy hounds out here now to try to persuade more "speed demons" AND IF U GO TO "GTP" NO QUESTION THATS WHAT YALL ARE LOOKIN FOR.

Killam Hills Kennels(Scott Head)

Jul 2nd, 2008 - 12:01 AM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Amen Brother Sharpe

Eric Emerson

Jul 2nd, 2008 - 6:55 AM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Bubba, I agree with you that 'bottom feeding' might work. Nice to see you whining in favor of reasonable change.
We both know that trashy hounds aren't a modern invention. With pens, they get seen more. We had families of hounds in the 'good ol days' that placed in trial after trial by looking stylish and mouthing cold tracks of various origin. Some of em couldn't even run a track the right way when it was hot.
There is nothing 'trashier' than some boo-hooing b-st-rd that can't run something.

M. Jones

Jul 2nd, 2008 - 7:50 AM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Mr. Emerson total points will finally separate the strong from the weak without having these freakish hunting and trailing scores inserted where some folks want them put. Then you are going to separate the real field trialers that spend hours working with their hounds. The separation is what they have been trying to prevent for so many years.
They do not want to put in the time but they want the credit. These folks have no shame they may get beat by 400 hundred points does not matter just give me a hunting or trailing score and the trophy.
They have diminished the class and pride of the Walker hounds to the point Beagle folks want to run in our trials. If you ask these people their standard answer is we want an all around hound. All I can say to this Mr. Emerson is if the process we use to choose our all around hounds is dropping the standards to where beagle hounds can run with our field trial hounds we better look to see how they are picking their Champions oh I remember they have gone to total points and improved their breed to this point.

bubba sharpe

Jul 2nd, 2008 - 4:40 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

m jones , "freakissh" you must be from where yall think somebody is cheating at every hunt...... if yall didn't chastise judges so for rewarding hounds for what they see in the field , yall wouldn't have such a skewed scoreboard. i will guarantee you if you started bottom loading all the categories you would fill the class of hunting up at every trial and you could still pick the best hound a liable to be the fastest. ....... do go to wall to wall cause very seldom do you go to a HUNT that doesnt have break-downs and "hound work " besides speed and drive need to be noted to the degree that it makes a difference, not just a token in GTP

Whitey Turner

Jul 2nd, 2008 - 5:16 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

Bubba how many hunts have you been to where they might have 10 dogs with 20 pts hunting How do you break the tie to place them??????? What is the biggest factor for the tie breaker?????? I would be willing to bet the fastest dog wins

bubba sharpe

Jul 2nd, 2008 - 6:23 PM

Re: Comments on Possible Rule Changes

ok whitey what you saying, rules specify how ties are broken.whats that got to do w/ any of this? how many hunts you been to w/ a bunch of huntin ties, ive seen many times there are 6-12 hounds maybe tied at 15 - 20 pts huntin, then you use there total score. i'm sure you gonna say theres your grand total, but you gone completely astray from HGA..... WHICH IS APPARENTLY WHAT SOME WANT TO DO.... wish you lots of success w/ whatever the MAJORITY wants to do.

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