GUYS I WAS JUST WONDERING, WAT ARE THE TOP HOUNDS OUT THERE.OUT OF THE WALKERS AND THE JULYS. WE ALL KNOW THERE IS A FEW, ON BOTH SIDES. NOW LETS ALL BE CIVIL ABOUT THIS. I'M JUST CURIOUS. I WANT TO KNOW WHO IS THE BEST OF THE BEST. I'M NOT TRYING TO START ANYTHING, JUST WONDERING THAT'S ALL.

redgal

joey we all need to look at the ******* these dogs are out of. all you here is about the stud dogs. the ***** is 70percent of all the breeding

STEVEN I AGREE, LOOK AT LOOTS MAMMA, SHE WAS MCMILLAN'S BABY BID. FROM WAT I WAS TOLD SHE WAS A GREAT HOUND. LOOK AT RED GAL, SHE HAS WON MANY, MANY, MANY HUNTS. I DON'T KNOW WHO HER MAMMA WAS, BUT I BET SHE WAS A GREAT OUT STANDING HOUND. LIKE I SAID I DO AGREE WITH YOU.

Red gal mamma is off of cj x scot cat which is off of action cat gyp look n the book at toc brown crowder his daddy is the same thing as red gals mamma

this is wat i,m talking about , good ole fashion chit chat. no body cussing, or fighting. i know we haven't heard anything from the july guys, but that is ok. keep it up guys. i want to hear more.

WOW I THOUGHT THIS POST WOULD GET MORE PEOPLE ON HERE. I GUESS I WAS WRONG. THE ONLY THING I WAS TRYING TO DO IS GET SOME INPUT. ON THIS SUBJECT.

it all depends on what u want and how you are going to hunt them,there is a lot of difference between pen dogs and outside dogs

Good point joel question though if I buy a pup from let's say or off of mighty man and run him on the outside does that make him a pen dog since he was mostly hunted inside the wire?because I hear this debate every once in awile and I believe if a hound is game he will run it anywhere,anytime and not care if there is a fence just my 2 cents

Your right, how does a hound know that it is in a pen or the outside the pen. He don,t , the hound just wants to run the game.

SOONER OR LATER ON THE OUTSIDE HE WILL HAVE TO CROSS A FENCE AND FROM MY EXPERIANCES THAT CAN BE A CHALLANGE IMPOSSABLE NO CHALLANGE YES ...... NOT PICKING ON ANYONES DOGS ON THIS STATEMENT BUT FOX/ COYOTE SENCE IS NEEDED TO BE A TOP OUTSIDE DOG AND THAT MY FRIENDS IS GENETIC.....JUST AN OPINION

That's right sam something in between the eyes(and not a bullet?)lol I could agree with july wanna be more its called game which in terms meens a hound that will pursue there game no matter what weather,temperature or terrian thrown his way he will pursue chase of his game til the end of the race....hell I see and know runt kidd runs all outside and turns them loose in pen them walker hounds don't care they just go and for the july side well its proven here I have been to the turners set up and the same thing they just go. Steve

The points about inside and outside are correct, but it goes further than just that how long are you looking at them running 3 hours or 3 days. Seems to take a different typr hound to do this also. I want mine to be the fastest dog in the pen for 3 hours and run for 12 hours. I have had both but not with the same hound that is the type dog I want to find.

You all make good points.
The one I would like to make is, if you dont start with BRAINS you may as well start over.

SAM, STEVE, MIKE,AND KEVIN, I AGREE WITH YOU ALL. THE HOUND HAS TO HAVE ALL THESE THINGS PLUS BRAINS. TO DO WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO DO.

i am a believer in its all in how u train them.i aint seen very many pen dogs that was very good on the outside but i have seen several outside dogs do a good job in the pen.that is like fighting a coyote,a lot of dogs will fight a coyote if you train them with a dog that will fight.this is a good topic,would like to hear more peoples oponion

i,m with you joel, i would like to here more too,

The man at the top of the first page told me one time that if the hound dont use it head (brain) it might as well have a ASS on both ends. an i think that fits hound have to have coyote sence.

i was at a outside feild trail one time and seen a guy who only hunts in a pen have to walk in and get his hounds because they couldnt get out of a barbed wire fence.i have seen some good pen dogs make a loose and go 50 yards and hit another track,that dont work on the outside

guys that is true. i have seen that my self.

i am still a firm believer it is all in how you train a pup and what you train it with and some breeds are better than others at certain things.but yes they needs brains and what you train them needs to have coyote sense,a pup will be a lot better dog if you hunt it with a good dog.

if its breed in to them they will have it. train a pup with what your going to run them with . that helps alot

yea that is true but some crosses just dont work,i dont care if you breed the 2 best dogs you can find sometimes it just dont work

that,s right.

i used to run in a pen with a man that had a july male and the dog was one of the best i ever heard run in a pen,several people bred to the dog and he never threw a pup half as good as himself

my opinion dont amount to much but for outside hunting i like a half croghan and half foxhound bred dog.we have had a bunch of croghan bred dogs and some of them dont bark enough but cross them with fox bred dogs and they bark real good

Joel I am with you all the way, I have found that some of the croghans dont have the nose we need, but cross then like you say and they make good hounds.

yea you are rite about that,we have 6 pups bred like that i will save for my pack,got 2 more im gonna sell,i like for them to have some hornet stinger in them too.the best dog we ever had was out of hornet stinger.

i think the nose is being bred out of dogs today,too much need for speed,speed aint worth nothing if they cant run a track

kevin and joel i agree, but i have seen some croghans hounds that had a good nose and could fight like a buzz saw. i used to own one. tony had it all good nose and good speed and can fight like a buzz saw. you can call steve clayton and ask him. i was stupid too sell tony, but i thought he done wat he was supposed to do. beleve me i regreat it everyday. that hound could smell a coyote and if you was driving and tony started barking and rasing hell in the dog box, you better stop and turn him loose. because he will go right to the yote. i promsie you that. like i said just ask steve clayton. but the croghan/fox hound cross would be a great cross. speed,nose, and lots of fight.

that is another point but some dogs do have a good nose and some dont,i have seen dogs of all breeds and some have enough nose and some dont. i used to coon hunt and not all tree dogs have good noses.

i figured the coon hounds, would have a great nose?

it is just about like fox and coyote dogs they are breeding for more speed and less nose

Joel you are 100% right. Most people are breeding for to much speed and not a good nose. If a dog has a good nose he still needs a head full of brains to make a top hound.
Where do you live and what do you want for those pups.

Joey I have ben around the croghan hounds for over 30 years and know Bill pretty good.
MOST of the croghans I have seen in the last 15 years dont have the nose they did say 20 to 30 years ago.
My dad had a full blooded croghan that died about 8 years ago that had an outstanding nose, their are still some that do but as a whole the ones I see dont.
Who did you sell Tony to?

KNOWBODY has mention training a dog he is only as good as he is trained if you dont teach them how to trail and teach them how to site run dont expect more than you have taught them

Tom you are right as rain.
Where I live I can take the best track dog in the world and make them a goofy heads up wild running dog in about one winter. Beleve me I have ruened some good hounds when I was younger.

First for all those that have a place to run on the outside, you are lucky. I have hunted and field trialed for 46 years and have saw a lot of great hounds. I am unable to field trial much any more due to leg problems but love to pleasure hunt and breed and train puppies. I fully agree on the post about breeding fox sense in dogs and todays breeding for more speed and less nose. A dog that can not run something by itself I have no use for and I will not tolerate a dog staying in the roads, this is just my opion. Different people may like other things in dogs and I respect this, and there are a lot of good stud dogs out there. I start my puppies in the daytime, but as soon as they start running I switch them over to running at night. I have found that this makes them use there nose and they are not able to run by sight. I also like a good mouth hound and I breed for this. I will compliment a man on a good hound no matter what hound he is out of Walker or July and no matter what color or stud dog. I run and breed white dogs but some people do not like them and I respect this. Enjoy reading all the post and Happy Hunting to everone.

yea kevin we live in southeast mo.south of poplar bluff,we get 100.00 for our pups,raymond newton used to come hunt with me and dad over 20 years ago,he had some young dogs out of digger newton that was good hounds.i think someof the problem where we live is the chemical that the farmers use ,and in the rice feilds water stands in them all winter and when it gets cold it frezzes and dogs have trouble and coyotes are smart and they learn quick

HEY KEVIN, I SOLD TONY TOO A FRIEND OF MINE, HE LIVES IN TX. BUT I GOT FULL BREEDING RIGHTS TOO TONY. ANYTIME I WANT TO BREED TONY, I JUST HAVE TTO MAKE A CALL. PLUS IF MY BUDDY DECIDES TO SELL TONY, HE COMES BACK TO ME.

joey,i looked at my rj dogs papers and he is a grandpup out of your tony dog,he is 3 years old and a fine hound,the best handling dog we ever owned,he can really move a coyote and fights to kill,i also have a red dog that is a grandpup out of manns ranger and his mom is manns socks,he is 7 and i would like to see some outside hunters breed to him before he dies

joel i have a gyp that has not come in yet, i might be getting in touch with you. about rj or red dog of yours. thanks joey d.

joey give me a call when she comes in or call me anytime 573-429-4468

thanks joel. i will.

any one have any experience with running dogs ,blackmouth curs,or leopard cur crosses.looking for run to catch speed,but don't want to lose too much nose. looking for cold nose grit to spare coyote/bobcat dogs currently like what I have but always looking to improve. run to catch, bay, hold till can get there. run to catch speed and desire being very important. Located in Pa.