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Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

You talking about men such as Woods Walker, SL. Woolridge, Robert L. Walker, men who wrote the National Rules and incorporated the National Fox Hunters Assoc.
They were so concerned about the integrity of the hunt, that they imposed these strict regulations from the very start. The first being. If you entered a hound in the National you had to rent a bright yellow collar from the National Assoc. for the entire hunt, for 2 dollars. This collar read "National Fox Hunters' with a telephone number on it, that's all. They weren't about to let you run with your name plate on a hound.
Second being, each dog that was entered was to be looked at closely and some distinguishing mark on the dog was picked out, and entered on the entry sheet. Can u imagine how cautious they were way back then, they wanted it as honest as possible. No one except the Master of Hounds and the folks designated to take entries were to see the entry Sheets. At that time the Master of Hounds did not score dogs. Absolutely no Judge was suppose to see an entry sheet.
They knew there were problems way back, they tried to head it off the best they knew how, by making it as fair as they could for everyone.
Remember, this was on the outside, can you imagine if we put these rules in effect today, how many would show up to the hunt in a pen mind you.
You know it is nice to go back sometime, what youll say next year at The Wolfhound Classic we try it, just for old time sakes. We should be able to suck it up and stand 3 days, just to realize how lax the rules of today are P.S. I would bet everyone would catch every dog they could then to break up the Races

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

Agree...nice post!

Sky

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

lets do it!! what are the odds of the same dog winning two years in a row Could some # cruncher out there give us the odds on a say 200 dog entry. Got to be more than 1 in 400.

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

Steve, When I was helping out with the Quinte hunts at Mallens a few years back, we used to get several club members to do the roll call sheets. That way judges didn't have to know who owned a particular number.
Now, if a judge is truly a crook, this won't help a bit. However, as a judge I always felt the less info I took to the woods, the better I liked it. When they're all just numbers it's a lot easier to judge what you see and not worry about who you're helping or hurting.
Winning a hunt with a hound you believe in is a wonderful feeling -- the culmination of a lot of planning, training and poop scooping. Don't know how someone who's bought a judge, juiced his hound or electrocuted him for trying to come in early can feel like that.
Every true hound man wants the best hound to win and if it's not his, he wants one like it next year. Good post.

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

If every judge worked as hard to find faults as the do to score it would change things also. Folks that hunted outside hunted "WITH" their hounds much more than 90% of the folks do today. Yes everyone watches crossing but not many really get in their and watch their hounds. Sure they know what they have when a coyote laps a pen in a straight line but most don't know what their best hound is they only know their fastest so to speak. It would be hard on hunts if everyone knew what they had and only kept their best. Those folks bringing ten head would be lucky to have 2 or 3. Dogs are like most people treat their kids now a days, used to if a kid got in trouble at school he got his butt whipped at home, now if kids get in trouble at school the parents complain to the principal my kid said someone else caused them to get in trouble. Folks are the same way with hounds, they want to overlook the faults because they are fast or built racey or any number of things. No body culls like the should. No body thinks a hound should be eliminated anymore unless it's convicted of something equivalent to murder.

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

Here are some old rules from 1902...














Some of the most interesting ones to me are:

Rule 3:
Number of entries from any one kennel or pack is limited to 4.

Rule 18:
The handler hunting a dog may speak to and urge him on in a proper manner...

Rule 25:
No hound shall be eligible to compete in trials that has been hunted upon the grounds where the trials are to be held within 6 months preceding the date of the trials.

Rule 26:
Basically, the hounds are divided into smaller packs and hunted separately. After the first round the judges select which hounds advance to be looked at again against the best hounds from the other packs. An early foxhound playoff.
Also, Hunting and Trailing are in one single HGA category.

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

Eric a quick story about scratching a high powered hound. I was judging at Caskeys a few years back. A hound had strung dogs all over the pen for about two hours. I had scored and scored him, he made a joke out of the rest of the hounds their. A few crossing and I knew his mouth and could scored the crossing with my eyes closed just that dominate. Well a few hours into the hunt the same hound came and jumped in my truck trying to get in my dog box. I lead him off and put my tailgate up and he tried to climb over my tailgate. He finally got under my truck and layed their. He watched me score crossing for about 15 minutes then decided he would take up where he left off. For the remainder of the hunt he kicked tail and took names. Kicked tail after the days running was over until they caught him. Scores came out and he was scratched for loafing and had scored over 700 pts I believe. The fussing and cussing started, his girl friend could really cuss I was told. I had left and gone home since I only lived a few miles down the road. Didn't take long for word to get out who scratched him. I knew the hound and who he belonged to and knew it wasnt gonna be pretty because he dominated that day. I was a sorry SOB for awhile but luckily the little thing called a cellphone had a camera. I had good Polaroids of him laying under my truck and shared those. Still he wasn't happy an I wasn't his buddy until about a year later. The same hound was at a big hunt at Pamplico, it happened to be the opening day of duck season I believe. When they started shooting outside the pen the same hound quit and tried to climb into yard with all the spectators. They had been shooting that day outside Caskeys, John Hoehner caught Bold Ruler up at home by shooting over him. Shortly after he did that at Pamplico John smiled the next time he saw me and said I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it. Glad I didn't hang around that day to hear that lady cuss!! Haha

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

We've never met Heath Howell , but it sure is nice to see some intelligence on this site now and then

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

You're going to see the same thing with the alpha when somebody that has their dog broke on bays with it tones & the man leading the hunt has his broke to catch & their at the same bay. Even if the owner is supposed to have it cut off how are you going to know if he's a mile down the road at the store. All I see is problems & no good answer. Man tones at store dog leading hunt jumps in ranger with judge which one of those 15 alpha collars went off probably the dog leaving the bay but how are you going to prove it & when you scratch the dog leading the hunt & his owner didn't touch his .Problems & their talking about banning. Better put a lot of thought into new rule . Don't say this can't happen already seen it that alpha tone is loud.

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

Elrod, you are exactly right. some will ride down the road and do it. Judges will see it and report it just as they did at the Breeders Cup, that was a serious situation, besides affecting the dogs someone could have been bitten in that situation.
The board of directors will watch this closely, if they see further problems they will take action accordingly.
The problem with the theory of catching the person doing it, is weak. the 15 dog could be standing next to the dog that gets shocked or toned and lets out a bark and runs like hell, well naturally you would think he got shocked, but dogs react different to this,all along it was the 40 dog that got toned.
The problem itself has to be eliminated, because as for back as time, the rules state, ANY ONE CAUGHT TAMPERING WITH HIS OR ANYONE ELSE'S DOG WILL BE ELIMINATED FROM THE HUNT.
When I watched that board of directors react to this item, some who love to watch these little machines as much as anyone, stood up and discussed this motion at length, and were strongly in favor of passing this, really surprised me but we all new then, we had a serious problem on hand.
Elrod, I hope it works out.

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

"someone will ride down the road and do it"

Punish them , not the law abiding citizens.

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

Hank, we will if someone can prove who pushed the button, in my opinion that will be hard to do

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

Yep....

Kind of like if they take all the guns away , there won't be anymore crime.

So , what's the bottom line ? You can or can't use alphas or any audible or shocking brand of collar? Or you CAN....you just can't have it turned on during the hunt....the box that is...the collar must be turned on ahead of time to work.

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

The rules from 1902 show that a handler was allowed to work with his hound in the field just like in most every hound or sporting dog event. The notion that a foxhound should be free cast and left uncontrolled for 5 hours is unique to say the least and it has worked against us over the long run. Hounds left to run on posted land in the wild when they could have been stopped by their handler, left to run off game when the race could have been broken up, left to do as they will at a bay in a pen when they could have been called off tired game.

It is interesting this rule moved forward when such a clear problem with enforcement was evident. In the past, policy proposals have been abandoned over concerns with enforcement.

Re: Some Old Rules that Probably should still be Around

I SAY TURN THEM OFF DURING HUNT OR LEAVE IN A TRUCK & IF YOU GET CAUGHT WITH IT BEFORE THE HORN BLOWS YOU ARE DQ.THAT IS THE ONLY WAY I SEE IT HAPPENING & BE FAIR TO EVERYBODY.