Would like opinions on which rules u prefer to run under & why. Also if u don't have a real name not interested in your opinion. Eric u think we could get an old time debate outta this Maybe I should have mentioned HUNTING
Guess I could list mine in order this is what I prefer!
1st GTP only scoring 7 dogs 35 down to 5 do not like the 15th place dog to get the same pts as 5th
2nd GTP
3rd HGA july National prefer the 50 50 100 100 for hga pts broke down by 5's in each class & the endurance
4th Masters HGA do not like the weight of hunting
5th HGA National do not like the 100 100 100 100 & do not like the way endurance is figured

Prefer National rules as they have built the blood of the walker hound to get it were it is today with the championship system for many generations. I think the endurance modification the National made years back for pens was good. ALL the scoring systems are good when good judges are judging in my opinion.

I agree with scoreing 35 down to 5 .
We want best dog to win.

1. GTP score to 7 places ( in side the wire )
2. National ( on the outside )

JULY NATIONAL THEY WERE MADE FOR A RUNNING HOUND THAT CAN HUNT OR TRAIL IF THE SITUATION SAYS HE NEEDS TO.....

1. GTP
2. Masters HGA
3. National HGA


I like 5 minute S&D intervals because a good race can lap our pen in just over 5 minutes and that race will have gone by 5 or 6 judges.
I still like 15 point pack scores because the hounds that stay in the race deserve something for being there while the majority are in the roads trying to head off the game. At a hunt like the recent Top Gun you had a lot of good hounds in the race but not getting scores while some less worthy hounds were picking up a few scores by jumping in front for a few minutes and then falling back into the road where they spent the majority of their time.
I prefer Masters HGA over National HGA because of the weight of the Trailing category and the logical (10-20-30) Endurance calculation.
I also prefer Masters over National because you can score on deer and be honest about it.


All that said, I have IFSB registered hounds so the National CH show up on the papers while the Masters CH have not. I read that the IFSB was going to start recognizing Masters Champions but I haven't seen it happen yet.

MASTERS GTP 5 MIN BREAKS 35 - 5

Whitey, The cold must be getting to me. I mostly agree with what you're saying. I completely agree re: the no-namers.
I think seven places is lots to go back in a race. After that they're just there.
Some form of GTP is far superior to HGA systems. HGA pre-supposes that a class will carry a certain weight before the trial is even held. Running conditions, scarcity of game etc. provide different looks for different trials. A scoring system should reflect that.
Under GTP, you score what happens. If there is lots of hunting going on there will be lots of hunting scores and they should be a significant part of making a champion. If the top ten hounds in hunting have been scored once or twice in three days, there is no way it should carry the same weight as s&d where the tenth place hound could have close to 1,000 points.
I might even like to see hunting scores increased in GTP and allow different judges hunting scores in the same hour to stand. I love a good hunting hound, I just don't see any reason to pretend you can pick the best ones in 1,000 acres and 300 coyotes.
As one poster wisely said, whatever system you use, competent judges are the most important component of any trial.

ERIC I SURE AM GLAD TO SEE THE COLD WEATHER HAS YOU THINKING STRAIGHT.....

I prefer Nationals rules the way they are now. The one thing about scoring the speed and drive is no matter if it's the second hound or tenth hound you should be able to stop scoring when you see the say top four hounds would loose the track and the fifth place hound is not in position where it could take over the race then you need to be able to stop scoring whether you can get hounds number or not

Whitey I like your first chose only !

I agree with the order Whitey has named. Hunting in a pen should not overtake S&D. With that said I too like a good hunting hound and believe if the game is scarce or breaks down into the hunt then that should figure in. If this happens the hunting dog's scores will take care of themselves and so will those that won't hunt.National rules were fine on the outside.

National rules are fine on the outside and still in use and going strong with hunting and trailing being important categories. It isn't necessarily a contest to what set of rules is best.One way has been around and works fine and some new rules suit new views of pen hunting.Someone said it is all about the judges and I agree.A good hound can surly be chosen by both sets of rules.

The one aspect of all the rules I wish there was some way to do better on is the scoring of Trailing. I agree that the hound who can smell the track and work it up to the point where he jumps the game is a very valuable hound. He might even be the most valuable. What I don't really agree with is that he needs to be barking when he is trailing. Older hunters have said the best red fox hounds running in the wild will not bark on the track until he is up under the fox. Too much advanced warning and the fox will be in the wind before the race ever gets started. At the National this year I watched a hound silent trail from West of the block church where he jumped the game and ran it across Choctaw and across Main Drag and back again. The hound did not bark until he was just about running the game. At the other end of the spectrum you have hounds that will bark on a cold track and get trailing points whether they actually jump the game or not. As a judge you sometimes don't know what a hound is trailing but you have to give the benefit of the doubt. It could be a deer or an armadillo or another dog but most of the time you never know for sure. A well respected hunter told me recently that in his opinion most trailing hounds are weak babblers. I don't know if he is right but it is something to think about.

The kind words had to fade sooner than latter on this post.

Whitey you are right on!!

I like the GTP scoring 1-7 ,but I have seen many times where a couple more dogs ,I would have scored! I also think hunting should be award more points. It's just my opinion ,as if hunting is done it is truly a trait a foxhound should have!! My second is the new national rules for pen hunting, because I feel the right dog will win the hunt!! When I first started fox hunting ,I didn't know how a hound that had 150 s/d and had hunting could beat a hound that in the same three days scored over 1000 points that never seemed right to me!! Of course those of you who knew me on here back then ,I used to give those starting the masters heck about hunting hounds!! I have and will always score a hound by it's work and not by it's owner!! I could care less who it belongs too ,unless I really like the way it run ,cause I might want some pups off it! Hey I am also a hunter not a peofessional judge just yet lol!!! Next I like the masters hga rules ! I would suppose next as I'm not formilure with July national rules as I like a shorter coat hound!!! ! Sorry Brenda and Whitey I had to pick!! The main thing when I go to a hunt wether it be to judge or run . I want the best hound to win and or place!! Too many people get there panties in a wod cause the same ole so and so wins this or that hunt!! My answer put in more work , don't be kennel blind and stay up or run daylight where you can watch your hounds!! Listening to them is a great stress release and most of the time you can tell what's doing what but if they are ten feet away from each other and one has a lil more outstanding mouth than the other you will swear it in the lead ,that's why your other hound out scores it at a hunt most of the time and you don't understand it!! Remember without good quality judges you cannot have a good hunt!! If you are a hunter as I am and you know you may not have the dogs you once had go judge!! I promise it will open your eyes!! You won't bash any hard working judge again!! Oh when your favorite hound gets scratched you still gonna get P.O. But you gonna have a hound that you saw while judge do something similar . It will make you think and calm down and say maybe that thing did do that!! Anyways I have rambled enough!! God bless and happy hunting /running

GTP 35-5 5min(pen)
National (outside)
I believe the GTP 35-5 is the most evenly way to judge a hound in speed & drive.
By this I mean judge #1 will score every hound in a pack.
Judge #2 will only score the top 5
It becomes an opinion on who is right.
35-5 put everybody on the same page and makes it an even playing field for everybody.
I'm not sure about this rule off the top of my head but I know it says that Hunting should not be scored if hounds running can be herd. That part I agree with but I would like to see the rule of hunting being scored on a lose.
I know what people say about rewarding a mistake but there is No Perfect hound. Its the hounds that respect their game during losses that usual allow the race to continue and I believe they should be rewarded.
Rules aside the most important thing is be honest not only to the sport but yourself. If your a houndsmen you know when you been beat. Go home and improve your kennel whether its breeding, conditioning or nutrition. In the end we should all strive to improve the breed Walker, July or whatever makes You happy. Unfortunately for some what was a family tradition or hobby of running hounds has become a business and the almighty dollar has caused kennel blindness.

I like the way you think Brad!