The Masters Stockholders voted by overwhelming majority to establish a drug policy for the Masters. A committee has been formed to finalize the banned substance list and work with the corporate lawyer to organize the implementation of the policy in a way that does not expose the corporation to lawsuits.

thanks for all the hard work Heath!

Great job guys. Thanks for the hard work.

Who will be funding this? The Ark-La-Tex Masters already charges a $45/50 entry fee and has gone broke 3 out of 4 hunts. Are the stockholders going to donate the funds to cover these expensive tests? I have spoken with my vet about this and he said their isn't anything cheap about it. Where was the membership vote?

Who said anything about a test?

It makes no sense at all. If you are implimenting a policy for substance conrtol, why would you not test all of the hounds???
And who would make this decision??? Your last post on this topic send's quiet a message....
Not sure I fully understand what is going on now...
Then again , maybe I do...

What about the leaderboard will national hunts be counted toward it after the policy comes in effect?

you're making too much sense now. 62 hunters have signed off on this and makes it okay to tell the other thousands what to do. Then on top of that Heath is smearing it on the public forum giving fuel to the fire against hunting.

First I want to say that I am not for or against the idea of placing a drug policy into effect for field trials. If it can be done without adding to the cost of entry fees it seems like it couldn't hurt anything.
On the other hand I do not feel like I have been getting beat by drugs at field trials. I got beat by Whitey and Brenda Turner at every hunt that I went to last year. I have kenneled with them and stayed at their house and I know that they did not drug their dogs. Instead, I think that if we banned Brenda we would be on the right track to leveling the playing field! I have noticed that since she hurt her knee Whitey's winning percentage is not as high!

Pound Puppy,
Now I think you may be on to something!!! ;) ..
Brenda, we have a couple votes, you outta here girlfriend!!! ;) sorry couldn't help but tease ya!!
Good one Pound Puppy!! Good one!!!

Puppy, it doesn't cost anything to simply put together a list of things that can not be used. Anabolic steroids are an easy one to start with. Just stating the ground rules will discourage most folks from trying to use them.

I mentioned at least 5 reasons to consider a drug policy in the letter I sent. Fairness in competition is one of the least important to me. I think there are more compelling reasons to do this.

Unfortunately in life nobody ever touches the wet paint until you put up the wet paint sign. Then everyone has to touch it to see if it is really wet.
Better be ready to enforce it cause now there is a rule.
Worst thing in life is to have a law that is not enforced. Seams to cause more problems than not having the law to start with.

This will never work, let sleeping dogs sleep!! Good dogs will place and win hunts , drugs or no drugs. Sorry dogs will not !! Unless you and find a drug to put heart in one, or nose!!!

There are not enough cops to patrol every stretch of highway in the country. Should we take down the speed limit signs? The rules of the road are in the best interest of the entire community. There will be some who won't follow the law but you shouldn't abandon the rules to accomodate the rule breakers.

Thing is they never put the speed limit signs up until they had the consequence part in place.

Question.Would this work?

If a man wins a hunt and wants his gold seal paper to say CH on it then let him pay to have the dog "Proven" after he wins the hunt. Send in paper work and get your gold seal. No paper work no gold seal.

You can still win the hunt you just don't call them champ.

Oh and by the way Heath. Good job buddy, I know this was a lot of work and good seeing people try to better what we do.

Has a list been established yet?

Am for banning all anabolic steriods!

Not for banning non-steriodal anti-inflammatory medicine like remadyl or deramaxx. These are considered safe to use by veterinarians and are prescribed for everyday use for dogs.

Athletes in high-school, college and professional sports get sprains, strains and tweak things in competition and have to use anti-inflammatory medication. Do NOT agree with banning safe medicine that is used for certian things like this.

Just an old opinion.

What will keep someone from catching your dog and giving it something on the banned list if you are leading the hunt? Plenty of jealousy in our sport. Just a thought. Derek

What will stop someone from catching your dog and giving it rat poison?

We have talked about this possibility of someone else doing something to your hound. If there ever is any testing done, I suggest not adding penalties for a dirty test beyond simply DQing the hound in question. All owners will have signed a sportsmanship agreement when they enter the hunt that explains this possibility. I think the owner should be presumed innocent but they must not be allowed to take the title or the prizes if it appears their hound was exposed to banned substances.

The vote by the stockholders was to say that the masters is intrested in a drug policy. No list has been come up with and without that there is no rule as of yet been put in place. A lot of things still to be worked out.

Most NSAIDs and some corticosteroids would almost certainly still be OK to use. There may be a few from these groups that get banned but if you are giving your hound something for chronic pain or something similar to arthritis then you will be fine. A lot of dogs are on a maintenance dose of Rimadyl for joint pain. That type of stuff will most likely be OK. What may be required is that all owners be willing to provide info from a vet who prescribed it so we know it is being administered under the supervision of a vet.

The things that will be considered for the ban are drugs that are not prescribed by a vet, drugs that pose a greater risk to hound health, and drugs that provide a considerable competitive advantage. It is going to be a pretty short list and it won't bother 95% of the hunters who field trial.

The committee is:

David Bailey - Chairman
Andy Bedgood
David Kearby
Heath Howell
Steve Ducote - tie breaker

I don't know how long it will take to put the list together. There will be some time to consult with hunters and vets before it gets done. Once we have a list, we can consider the issue of testing. Then, the whole package will most likely be voted on by the stockholders to add By-Laws regarding the list and testing.

Please withhold judgement until you see what we come up with. I don't think it is going to bother many folks at all. If in 6 months you find you can't live with the new policy then you can always bring it up at the next Masters membership meeting (which should be in the West). Assuming the policy is being implemented by then, A 2/3 vote against the policy at the membership meeting would signal the stockholders to reconsider the portions of the policy that some hunters might have a problem with.

I think there is a lot of misinformation out there right now about what we are trying to address. The letter I sent out was to get us jump started. I communicated with several hundred people and I put together a list that I thought was a good baseline. I have had that for over 3 weeks and it was circulated among people who were engaging in the conversation. It wasn't possible to keep 500 hunters in the loop and even some of the ones I have talked to many times can't keep straight which drugs were on my list and which ones weren't. One hunter would tell me he couldn't support the proposal because some of his hounds were on rimadyl or some of them had to have dexamethasone on occasion. Those two were never going to be banned so that hunter had nothing to worry about. I can only think of 2 or 3 drugs that might be banned that anyone would ever consider using and that might be in the case of an emergency. I had a clause in my proposal about medical exceptions to the banned substance list. If there were a case that came up where a banned substance needed to be used (something like a snakebite for example) then the Directors could issue an exception so the hound could be treated and then re-enter the competition if it was able to do so.
Tic from Turdhill Kennels had some good points about cases where certain drugs were needed in emergencies. That is something we can work around. Paul West seemed to dislike the idea of a drug policy but I'm not sure he knew exactly what we were considering. This kinda got sprung on a lot of folks at the very end of the membership meeting. I bet most hunters will be totally cool with it once the full picture comes into focus.

Heath, Thank you again for all the time and effort you've put into this. We now have a committee with the brains and character to formulate something positive for fox hound field trials.
Will it be perfect? Is anything else in this crazy world perfect?
To those who would say, ' it don't matter. Let em run', 'you can't put heart in em with drugs' and the ever-popular ' drugs won't make a champion out of a sorry hound' -- please consider this:
Major league baseball has moved from ' don't know. don't care' to a policy of extensive random testing against performance enhancing drugs. It is expensive. It generates controversy. It is not perfect.
Does anyone really think MLB is taking the time, effort and expense to ban something that doesn't give performers a significant edge? How about the Olympic Games, Tour de France, World Cup Soccer and just about every other organized professional sport league? Are they ALL idiots with money to burn?
What about horse racing? Grey hound racing? They have policies and procedures that are implemented and enforced. Are they jousting with shadows or doing their best to prevent someone gaining unfair advantage?
None of the above policies are perfect. None guarantee 100 per cent adherence. Neither will ours.
If there is safe, effective medicine that SHOULD be used in competition, that should be encouraged. If PED's are dangerous and/or unfair, there should be at the very least, a policy in place to label it for what it is -- cheating.
This is the first, small step, but a very important one. Check recent posts for the number of hunters who support it and those who are willing to publicly oppose it.
Good work.

Something needs to be done! If it cost 10 or 15 dollars more to enter a dog so be it!! You run with the same dogs for 6 months and they are average dogs but you go to a field trial and cannot get in a race; is this the dog or the drugs? DRUGS!!!! When money became the biggest prize is when the drugs started!! We need to put an end to all the drugs being given!!!

AMEN to that!!!!Take out the money and politics. Go back to the way hunting used to be!!!!

Most people that cry about someone giving there dogs something. Are the people that are getting beat. Didn't know there where drugs that made a hound run game or give him more speed or heart. I have run hounds most all of my life. I think all of this is a bunch of bull. You need to let me be the tie breaker.

What drug problem has been identified? I had a long reply but erased it until I saw Heath Davis' response. This sport seems to be cry baby cry.
Until you, Heath Howell, can identify a "doper", why don't you turn in your Barney Fyffe badge and do something that is worth a nmad?!

Then why do you do it Davis? And to Hustleville were glad you didn't give your long reply because it would have been more dumb than your short one.

Now that is an interesting theory. They make drugs that make a man hit a baseball harder and farther, peddle a bicycle faster and longer, sprint faster, race longer distances, make a horse run faster and for longer distances, make a horse pull a heavier load, etc.... But they don't make one that can improve the ability of a hound to run harder for longer? I knew hounds were special creatures but if they are immune to the effects of performance enhancing substances, that is pretty dang amazing.

Mr Howell you are truly one of a kind. I am a young hunter but I am stunned at you on here. I would like to just ask you why you are so worried about it? can't you just hunt and be happy? have you not ever heard the statement "dont hate the players hate the game"? If its so corrupt then move to fishing or something. I don't care if there is a list of anything or not or if they test for every drug in the world on dogs but give it a break man. You would have far better luck at getting something accomplished if you would get off of here whining and go about it in a more professional manner like asking people's opinion and getting the hunters thoughts and letting them help with the decision making instead of trying to be the Leader that tries to outspeak everybody.Prime example is under the St. Jude post when a man was just trying to advertise his hunt on here for a good cause and you make that stupid comment. I don't know you personally but what you said on there makes you not much of person that deserves respect in the foxhunting world. I mean after all it is for sick kids and you should be helping promote the hunt instead of telling them what they are doing wrong. Just my opinion. I'll probably never post on here again because i'm sure some people will have smart comments to this but everybody else is posting there opinion so I thought i'd share mine. I know what you are trying to do is make the foxhunting world better but some things you just need to not let the whole world hear you complain about. They make telephones these days.

I'm not saying that there is a problem. Since there is no rule on the books there can't be anyone out there breaking it. This is something that needs to be done to protect ourselves from having a problem in the future. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

This isn't something I'm doing, this is something the Masters has decided to do. I control 0.075% of the Masters shares. The resolution passed with over 98% of the shares that voted going in favor of establishing a drug policy.
If you want to complain about whining and crying I encourage you to talk to folks like JW Webb. He and Clyde have won KOY two years in a row I think. You think he is getting beat so much that he is crying about somebody using something they shouldn't be using? Talk to Lenny Crowe. I think he has had something like 10 or 11 field Champions. Talk to Steve Ducote. He and Skinny have won as much as anybody the last 5 years or so. Those are just three men who happen to think this is the right thing to do. All of them former Masters Presidents. All of them winners and leaders in the foxhunting world. So don't try to act like there are a bunch of cry babies who can't get there name called trying to get this drug policy established. This is something that is supported by the most competitive field trialers in the country as well as the most die hard forks of the creek foxhunters.
Besides all that, complain to David Bailey if you have a problem. He is the Chairman. He is the one that gets to deal with all the real cry babies.

Drew, I appreciate the compliment. I'm not worried about anything and I am happy. I don't hate the players or the game. I don't think I have had a harsh word for anybody with regard to what they give their hounds. This was just a piece of business that needed to be dealt with and the foxhunting community has decided to deal with it. It is unpleasant but it had to be done so it is getting done. I am but a meek and humble servant. There are people far more able than me that are handling this project. The Stockholders wanted to do it. David Bailey is putting it all together for us. I'll cast my vote in favor when it comes time but that is about all I can do. If anything gets done it won't be because of me. I put my ideas out there and now everybody else has a chance to do the same. I can't force anybody to do anything. I communicated with over 500 foxhunters before the Masters. The ones that wanted to have input did. There is still a chance for all the rest to have their say as well. Talk to David or to another committee member. They will listen.

I sent Coach E a check for the St Judes hunt. I really appreciate what he and the others are doing. I think they could have made a good thing even better by following the rules so they could have their hunt counted in the Leaderboard. I suspect Coach is standing up for his friend and that is a good thing to do. I just wish they had not diverted attention away from the cause by making the hunt about banned judges instead of about the kids. There are people talking about the St Judes hunt but they are talking about the judges, not about the kids. I think that could have been avoided. If pointing out the fact that the distraction could have been avoided means I don't deserve respect then so be it.

If they enforce a drug policy they will have to drug test the top ten hounds or the hounds being awarded for placing.in ama pro racing supercross or the outdoors at the end of the race they pull the top 3 in the paddocks of the ama where they test specific gravity of fuel and the decibels of the exhaust systems if none pass they are diqualified.but at anytime you may protest a rider in the top ten pay a few to have them torn down(motor) if found it exceeds limits they are fined and probation.the only way this system can work fairly you would have to test the ones being awarded not just the one that wins.i know heath who is going to enforce the rules i just hope they get this system right and dont screw someone of something.

if u are not doping your hounds why in the hell are yall getting upset over a drug policy ? i think its a good rule and all forms of competion have drug policies one way or the other.

Heath,
Your doing great. Don't let them get to you. Remember this is the same way they treated Fred when he started the Masters and look where it has came to today. I write down every one's name who post against this topic because if their so against a drug policy, they are in my opinion, for using drugs and I will never buy or run hounds that come from them. If they don't think drugs will help, they shouldn't even worry about this topic. They can call me a whiner if they want, I've been there before, top bottom and the middle.
Darrell Hurt

I go to the hunts to hang out with friends and watch good hounds work. Too many people are spending too much time making rules and regulations when they should be in the woods making better hounds. Who cares if there is or isn't a drug policy? Have your dogs in shape, paint a number that the judges can read, make roll call on time, cast your hounds, and let the big ones eat the little ones. If you win let them do whatever they want to do to test them. Heath you do a great job. I don't drug my dogs but I'm not scared to run with anyone that does.

Cole, I think having the policy is going to help us keep the race going longer than if we don't have it. It will keep us from running into problems in a couple of areas.
I also think it is going to protect the good houndsmen from the rumors and suspicions that sometimes follow them. For instance, some hunters say when they win it is because they work harder than others getting their hounds ready and they try harder to get the good hounds that can win. I think that is true but you have some out there that will say so and so won that hunt because of something he gave that hound, not because of the ability of the hound or the hard work of the owner. After we get this in place there won't be all that whispering about ole so and so because he will have passed a drug test and proved it was the hound and the work that led to the victory, not a drug. That is going to shut some people up. They may come up with some other reason to down another hunter but it won't be the drugs. That is one rumor mill we can stop. And when we start having champions that are proven to be clean I think hunters around the country are going to feel a lot better about driving long distances to breed to a winner and buy some puppies off of him. Right now they have this excuse. Soon they are going to have to admit that the Ch's are legit and you either "come get you some" or you keep breeding lower quality hounds.

And I don't mind running against anyone either no matter what they are using or not using. I ran this Bill dog in the Masters and didn't give him a drop of anything from a medicine cabinet. He finished strong and Tic saw him running two hours after call off on the last day. He was sitting about 35th S&D after two days but he fell off the last day. Still he did real good in my opinion and finished ahead of about 300 hounds who showed up to win the hunt. I wanted to test him out and see what he could do on his own and he impressed me.

What about penalties? You can't have a drug policy in place unless you've also discussed penalties. Embarrassment doesn't count as a penalty either.

So what are the names of these suppo sed miracle drugs that help you win with sorry hounds? Is Dex a drug, penicillan, prednisone, predef, B12, winstrol, cocaine? What are we looking for? Ive been in this along time now and I have seen people lose more hunts helping dogs than win. Not picking at ya just asking a serious question.

It would be nice if ahound could talk so it could ask for help or better yet,refuse it

If your going to ban some drugs given to hound's .. why not just ban all drug's ... I hear people say you can't give any type of drug to give heart to any dog and that is true ....The dog either has it or they don't .... If a dog sprain's his ankle and can't run the next day withdraw him or her ...Feed the dog's dog feed everynight and let the best dog win !!!! ABSOLUTLEY BAN ALL DRUGS !!!!!I do believe in treating the dog if he got hurt or sprained an ankle or poked a stick in him or her with some rymadyl or Dex ... But that would mean you have to withdraw the dog !!! !!!! Let the dog's run on heart alone and absolutley no drug's of any kind !!!! Like someone said in a earlier post if they win the hunt let them pay for the drug test to prove the dog DRUG FREE .... Or don't give them the CHAMPION !!!! Just my opinion !!!!!

while your at it you should ban expensive feeds like purina hi pro etc. Make everybody feed ole roy and level the playing field even more!!

That will have to wait P.P. The next thing after this is banning all July's. They ought to be illegal.
Darrell[ [ ]

Pound Puppy, You are absolutely right and you have made me re-think my position.
Ingenuity and initiative in hound men should not be curtailed.
In fact new techniques should be explored -- possibly attaching some kind of motor ( gas-powered perhaps, even solar-powered if you can get enough oomph) to hounds.
There may be a few flaws to work out initially. Turning may be a problem. Hounds may be propelled into (or through) pen fences, trees and the fenders of parked trucks. I'm sure some of our great minds will eventually get a handle on it and it will be an exciting new innovation.
You are absolutely right. Leveling the playing field is an absurd concept.

Alot of Good points and Ideas's here. Seems to me though, the old proverbial CART before the HORSE.

The main goal here, I am assuming, is to level the playing field. With that said, why not start with and address the real problems that plague field trialing.

One being, not enough judges at some of these hunts. Two, the ole Hunting club/association buddy system. How about the same group of judges judging multiple hunts?

Then we get into age issues concerning derby dogs, uh how about pen owners/lessee's running there hounds in the hunt? I could go on and on.

Drug testing seems like a pretty good idea to me, but only if every entry is tested. Thats just fair!

Now what about the costs of it, is the vet/testing facility on someones payroll? Maybe the vet is on the ole buddy system?

With dog feed up, gas prices up, alot of people are in a squeeze, I hate to see this sport turn into the horse game, where you HAVE to be a money man to play.

The Masters is a great organization, and I commend everyone involved, but I believe and have believed for years, that at some point we need a real Foxhound registry that gets on board, enforces rules, contributes to the sport and paves new roads for us.

Instead we have everyone who loves the current registry options we have, and wants to join a hundred different hound associations/clubs, instead of DEMANDING a credible registry that sanctions, governs rules, diciplines and takes care of the "politics" of this sport instead of each club or member taking it into their own hands.

This is just food for thought and not meant to offend anyone or anything.

THERE ARE SOME VERY SMART PEOPLE RUNNING THE MASTERS AT THE TIME JUST CALM DOWN AND LET THEM WORK THIS OUT. IF YOU DONT LIKE THE OUTCOME IT CAN BE CHANGED BUT UNTIL THEN YOU HAD BETTER WORK ON YOUR STOCK CAUSE IF THEY START DRUG TESTING THATS ONE MORE EXCUSE WHY YOU GOT BEAT THAT IS GONE. ITS NOT GONNA BE THE JUDGES OR THE DOPE THE LIST IS GETTING SHORT NOW FOLKS. ONE LAST THING ALL THE OPINIONS ABOUT TESTING ALL ENTRIES IS CRAP. EVERY MAN WOMAN OR CHILD AT THE MASTERS IS THERE TO WIN ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS TEST THE WINNING HOUND.....

MASTERS, wish you'd signed your name to that post. It's a good one.
Something that the glass-half-empty crowd hasn't grasped is that if you train your hound well, feed him top-grade food and bring a top dog in top shape to an event and DON'T use PED's, a drug test will show the hound world that.
The names that appear consistently on the leaderboard are there for good reasons -- they get good bloodlines, often at high cost; they feed them well; have regimented, effective training programs.
For some, that's enough. For others, there's a chance PED's come into play. Wouldn't it be interesting to see who runs their hounds clean and are successful.
Remember, Barry Bonds wasn't some sandlot softball player before PED's. He was the best baseball player on the planet and chose to chemically enhance that. He put himself on a plane with Aaron, Mays and Ruth amongst the all-time greats. Was it ability or drugs? Unfortunately, we'll never know for sure.

Eric, I think you took my message the wrong way. I do not think that leveling the playing field is absurd. I do not have the answer but like I said in a previous post, I do not feel like I have been getting beat by drugs at field trials.
I would like to see a level playing field but how do you get everyone to condition on the same days and for the same amount of time and feed the same kind of feed? Only then could you be for sure that the best hounds or bloodline were winning the field trials. I just go for the fun so this kind of stuff doesn't make any difference to me.
Just think..............if the playing field is leveled..........what will we do with the walker strain of foxhound............oh!........there will still be bench shows!!!!!!!!is there a drug for that???????????

Howard, That's kind of where I was going with the Bonds thing. Getting rid of drugs will not totally alter the face of field trialing.
There is no drug that can make a sorry hound into a great one. I think there ARE substances that can make good ones better and better ones great. Hopefully a sound drug policy and some kind of testing can eliminate that advantage.
Your point about feed and training is well taken. That's the 'advantage' many top trialers have -- and should have.
Feeding high quality feed, vitamin supplements, swimming, jogging, special conditioning programs, keeping them free of parasites -- that's all part of a successful fox hound program.
To me, PED's cross that line. I think what the new committee is being charged with is just WHERE that line should be drawn. What constitutes diligent, prudent, intelligent care of competitive hounds and what is meant to give an unfair advantage at possible risk to the hound's health; the game's welfare and the spirit of fair competition.
To me, a level playing field means I have the same chance at winning the Masters as anyone else. Judging from my history, I'm not going to take advantage of it, BUT I have the chance to.
I'm sure there are plenty of top trialers who use few, if any, drugs and plenty of unsuccessful ones who load em. Eliminating PED's will not turn the hound world upside down, just provide everyone with equal opportunities.
Using Winnstrol, Bute, Banamine etc. is not an option for me. Never has been. Never will be. From what I know and read those substances take me across the line of fair and judicious competition.
Hope some day most of us can agree where that line falls and stay on the right side of it.
Do not get too confident about the July 'surge'. When Brenda retires, you guys will be right back on the fringe again.

I THINK SHE IS ON A LONG TERM CONTRACT......

Eric, I think the more successful field trialers are dripping their dogs to keep them hydrated. Some if not all of the drugs that you mentioned, dehydrate the dogs and causes those guys who use them to be less successful.
The field trials that I have done the best at was the ones where my dogs were ready when I got there, they didn't get hurt during the trial and had NO DRUGS in their system. The field trials that I did the worst at, I felt like my dogs were hurt or not up to par so I doctored them the way my vet told me to and never even finished alot of those trials (and never did win one that way).
Maybe there is a PED out there that can make a hound win a three day hunt but I do not know what it is. As long as it is still legal to use it please let me in on the secret!!
Three hour hunts.... maybe??? Three day hunts.....not that I am aware of.

ps. The only PED that I have heard of here in MO is a MO-PED and they are not that fast