Fellow hunters im looking to get back at it im looking for a hound that when i winstroil his a$$ he will run threw the fence after what he or she is pursuing.since this isnt on the list and the masters has a new vet who thinks are hounds are directly off tennessee lead and should cold trail a 5 day old grey fox????heath brother some off this **** is plain old dumb and i know we are looking for the best hounds what we should be worried about is the cheating and cheaters not look the other way.remember the hounds of that era would never compete with todays thats facts brother these wolf hounds today get overrr therreee and get it.not back there

Loveless you always crack me up but i think you hit the nail on the head. Maybe we should all throw our comupters in the yard and go hunting instead of complaining. Those people who "Drug" their dogs are prolly running coyotes right now instead of sittin on the couch in thier underwear playing on the comupter, eating fritos, and drinking miller ponies.

You are mixing a couple topics together which makes it tough to figure out what your point is.
First, I think winstrol is a controlled substance so be careful with that stuff. Could be criminal charges if you get caught with it.

We run coyotes here. Fox will not stay long in the local pen. We look for hounds with "forward cast" who hit the track ahead of a bother instead of behind it. Have had an entire entry sheet scratched for what amounts to cunning running. I'm no stranger to a wolfhound.

Are you trying to say we need drugs to run the way we run today and we wouldn't need them if we were running grey fox in the wild. I don't know if I agree with that. I don't think we need them in either place.

If you can't beat them with it join in with them lol and then if yours likes the med. Quit complaing about it people are going to use meds no matter what.

Now Goose what did Cary Don do to you for you to call him out about sitting on the couch in his tighty whitey's eating frito's playing on the computer, but I think he drinks them lil water downed coorslight's, I believe can't remember but 1 things for sure we always sended him to bed early when he try's to drink with big dogs !!!!!

Do you think we need drugs to run heath???cause i can say this agian most people i knows hounds can yank your collars put some tops 21-12 in them and look out cause that collar just went tighter 2 notches.and drugs what drugs there are some dumb son of b$$ches to think all this druging.tell me i cant give my dog banamine i have several vet sources that have been vets for a combination of 62 years both say banamine is safe in correct dosages other words your hound isnt a 2000 pound mare???is it and i wouldnt care if and i use this word strong if i was ever too win a hunt and they said you won because of banamine or whatever????i still would call the national enquirer at let them and the whole world know i won that son of a gun.anyways i need hounds the medicine is brewing

I think a lot of folks get bogged down on the competitive advantage part of drug policy and start to think it is all about somebody getting beat and being upset, or someone winning and not deserving it. Whether or not a hound gets an unfair advantage over his competition by being exposed to certain substances is really about the fifth most important reason to ban these drugs. It is the least important reason of all the ones I can think of. Number one at the top of my list of reasons has to do with the ethical environment inside the enclosures. Take a minute to think about fairness and the high respect we have for the game animals we chase. Those little fuzzy critters are not machines. Don't we look after them just like we look after our hounds? Isn't their health and safety a top priority for us? Lets do the right thing and show them the proper respect and fairness.

Mr. Howell,

How fast can a yote or fox run over an extended distance? Given, they're in an enclosure and the heat can get extreme!

Heath, I am not trying to get in anyones argument, but i would just like to say, I think alot of dogs that are winning hunts are on enhancements and it is all about the money and bragging rights. People are getting away from true sportsmanship of hound running! I have looked on here for a couple of months and I see people complaining about the drug testing policy. If they want to run their dogs on drugs, that is their right as a dog owner, so why keep crying if they cant run at the masters hunt....Just dont go!
I always hear people saying that ole so and so has good dogs because he wins hunts. If everyone would go runs their own dogs by themselves, just them and their dogs, half of the people that are winning big hunts, couldnt even have a race!... More than once I have seen dogs that could not get into a race in fox pens that were running just for pleasure or fun, people sell them and next thing you know they are on the front page of the hunters horn....By no means am I trying to saythat everybody does not have a couple good hounds, but i would personally like to see at least one hunt where a person could go home and say that was the best, honest hunt a man could go to!

I've seen Heaths mentors with very big needles 25 years ago at Parkers.

The hounds today are bred right, and fed the right feed and suppliments that alone makes them seem to be on drugs. The hunters today know how to train a hound for the type hunt they are going to and this helps as well. People that don't know how to condition hounds just write these amazing performances as drug enhanced that is the only thing they can figure. I have seen common dogs with potential wind up in the right mans hands and if a man is a houndsman he can get all that he can out of a hound and it is amazing. No one today wants to start out at the bottom and work their way to the top. Yes some drug their dogs but very few. As much attention that is spent on this topic you would think it is an everyday event. On another note I give my dogs fluids IV and people think this is a sign of doping, I also have no problem giving prednisone or dex it is the equivalent of you taking an Aleve to start your day. Cmon hunt harder and ***** less. Sportsmanship is the answer.

Darn it cole if this was a question to win a prize you would have won.i hear threw the grapevine they will ban k9 superfuel its to good for them.im sticking with the formula a famous hunter danny morris told me and thats tops 21~12.

Cole, on the subject of sportsmanship, I have a simple question. While you are administering the IV drip and giving the dose of prednisone(both of which are good things that are designed to help and not hurt), who is out there doctoring on that wolf or fox that your hounds will run in a few hours? They would like a little something for soreness and swelling and hydration also. Is it sporting to give the hounds prescription advantages that the game animals don't have?

Hey heath here is one for you 9-11 that horriable day do you think the united states shouldnt of used that much aggression because of inaccent people or level them as they did us.when u say poor coyote or poor fox think about this this pens when the game is conditioned know how to get away from a pack of hounds everyone knows this.i would never say poor fuzzy yote or fox think they say that when they eat your cat,livestock or other pets.and the next thing u know 3 days will be 1 day hunts sounds like most pen owners in the midwest 3 hours is enuff....is it????

It amazes me whenever people think that hanging a needle into a hound transforms them into a monster! People don't realize that the people that strap it on they azz every weekend work at it. They have their dogs bred right & tight-on a good nutritional dog feed, vitamins, regular deworming & run/jog/swim them on average prolly 3-5 times a week!

*I will be so glad when we get moved back to the malvern area so we have the time to field trial again!

Mr. Howell i would like To see you catch a coyote and And put an IV drip on him

SOUNDS LIKE HEATH IS ABOUT TO START TRYING TO FEEL SORRY FOR THE GAME. THE PENS ARE ABOUT TO SHUT DOWN AS MUCH AS HE TALKS. NEW SITE "MASTERHEATHHOWELL.NET"

When the game goes inside the pen it is our responsibility to look after it. The safety and well being of the game is a top priority. It has got to be way more important than bickering over who cheated who or what is OK to use on a hound for its own sake. If we can't agree that the best interest of the game needs to supersede our own desire to outrun each other then maybe we are in bad shape. I think the good and honest foxhunters of the world need to agree to leave behind some of the drugs and treatments in the best interest of the future of our sport. If there are some dishonest ones that won't get on board then we can figure out a way to deal with them as they become a problem. Right now, we have a community wide ethical problem. It won't take much to fix it. Once we protect ourselves from forces outside the foxhunting community we can turn our attention to the issue of enforcement, which is an internal issue.

So what you are saying Mr Howell Is a hound cant put pressure on On game unless it is intoxicateed if so come to Arkansas and Buy your books and send you to School

That is not it at all, David. The issue is fairness. A hound running on its natural ability chasing a coyote running on its natural ability is a fair contest. When you start helping one side with prescription products that the other side don't have access to then you are not holding a fair contest. We all believe strongly in fairness between hound and game, we just never have put that belief down in writing. Now is a good time to do that.

500 acres 100 coyetes 300 dogs FAIR

Sounds to me like Heath is trying anything he can to talk his way Into a race instead of buying good dogs and working his azz off like most other people do!!!! I think if he don't want to spend the money and work at it he would be better off playing video games on his couch not running hounds!!!!

Joe, whoever you are, how is any of this going to put me in a race??? Are you saying if we all stopped using certain substances then I'd have a better chance of getting in a race? Explain how that would work.

I dont care who gives there dog what.....load up lets go cause when you loose then your gonna feel really bad cause you gave them a boost...i have beat many dogs that are givin a boost....and have never gave my dogs anything before a hunt....so to me i dont care what you give them if your dog is right then he or she will get the job done.....look at it like baseball now guys are taking stuff to hit home runs and back then babe ruth and other greats did the same without it!!!!!!!! just sayin people are getting lazy as the years go by!!! Good dogs dont need anything but a good feed program worming and the right shots......most dogs are sorry in the pin and ive had a few myself they need something to get in the race i wanna see a good dog do it cause of his blood!!! good hunting fellas
Dogman

first some judges didnt suit you, now hunters drugging dont suit you. maybe garmin should look out bc your going to start trying to ban them from deer hunters next or from using in field trials because we get our dogs caught too easily and it gives some hunters an unfair advantage over the game.

Gosh darn it does anyone have any hounds???

Wes, I didn't have anything to do with banning judges. I was defending them so a member of that judge review committee showed me a summary from a major hunt where one judge scored a hound 25 times more often than the average judge at that hunt. After that I stopped defending them but to this day I wouldn't have a problem with them judging one of my hunts as long as they will allow their names to be posted with the scores they turned in. I think posting the scores with the judges names cleans up a lot.

What gets me is how jealous alot of you appear of Heath's intelligence. You guys are making it very obvious. If you weren't you would not be talking down to him on nearly every post. As far as the drug policy, is all this barking up here from the guilty dogs? So I would be real careful before I made another unqualified remark, cause somebody knows a little something on somebody else!

Hunter1 you are a goofy Sucker

Well goofy is better than what my ex wife has called me in the past. But I'm not jealous of someone who feels strongly about a problem issue that alot of others want to sweep under the rug.

A coyote runs every njght on the front end of every race and the most any dog runs is 5 hours a day for 3 days. Tougher than any dog on anything, name your drug. I'm going to get 5 coyotes and put #s on them and still lose every hunt, because most judges never see the game. I'm going to soup them up too. Right place right time, your luck is the same at Biloxi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hunter0???where has any of these post or remarks jealious remarks????if i or anyother person wants to modified there hounds how is that jelious there not crying.and yes you are right about heath i have spoken face to face with him he is very smart and a nice man.i agree somewhat with him just not what they are trying to ban or enforce drug policy.as one hunter has posted the entry fees are plenty high enuff.

Steve, what would you think about just the first part of the policy being passed?
This part...

Banned Substances
A. The following substances, medications, and treatments may not be administered to any hound at any time before or during the running of a Masters affiliated field trial in which the hound is entered:

Anabolic Steroids, Growth Hormones, Sex Hormones, Androgens, Bone Marrow Stimulators, Erythropoietic Agents, Blood Transfusions, and all treatments that may be known as Blood Doping.


And just leave the rest to be dealt with later. I don't think we have to have testing in place to ban these things listed above. I don't personally know of anyone that is currently using any of it but I think it would be good to put something in writing to say that nobody should start using it.
People want to be able to use the NSAIDs and corticosteroids and I don't want to have to pry it out of their hands.
Some have suggested having special field trials where a total ban on any kind of drug is enforced. Maybe just one big hunt per year where nothing at all can be used but feed, water, and food supplements like K9 Superfuel and lixotinic etc.

Anybody else with an opinion go ahead and respond also. Can we agree to ban those things that are listed at the top? These are the things that would be used before you get to the field trial. I'm thinking we can postpone action on the anti inflammatory and pain relieving drugs until some later date.

All I wanta know is if anyone on here has tried to do what they think is something good for our sport weather it failed or not what did u do that's all I wanta know name it not taken sides just askn

From the sound of all this garbage, one would think this winning for the trial winner is a multi-million dollar operation. Please! Some have posted on here in days past people whom they believe have made a sack full of money in this business. Is field trialing a business? How many claim the loss/gain on their income tax? Explain to me why or what evidence or data exist to support dopers winning hunts.
I will do better than that. I can't hunt right now but plan to in the near future but am more of a "foxhunter".
The names I see who are winning, are they the dopers?
Here is a short list. You are calling them dopers. Well, are they?
This is off the top off my head and I keep up with Louisiana and Mississippi more than the East Coast.

You actually thought I was going to name somebody?
Not a chance. You have not named anybody either-well someone kind of convicted the turd but, hell hath no fury!
Besides, when this thing passes the masters might fold. There is a right way to do things. The great thing about our country is the owner can do as it pleases. I don't care either way. Probably shouldn't comment but I can't resist. Need comments here. Someone other than my chicken dung self name the dopers. Let them know who the accused are.

Heath i dont believe i have ever heard of the above mentioned except the steriods.and agree with it to a extent as naming the steriods cause i have had to put dogs on some forms of steriods for allergy related symptoms. Recommened by a vet also.guess it would have too be fine printed etc.and too have a hunt like you mentioned would be great also

Jeremy, nobody has done anything wrong yet, no matter what they have used. There was no rule for them to break so they could not have been wrong. If we pass something and someone uses a banned substance then they would be doing wrong. We can't predict who will do wrong in the future. I can tell you who has been supportive and who has been dead set against anything passing. Some supportive have been Steve Ducote, David Bailey, JW Webb, John Hoehner, Lenny Crowe, Hank Cranford, and a host of others. Some against have been John Dodson, Tic, Paul West, David Bonner, and a long list of others. That is just off the top of my head and some successful field trialers. I don't correlate being against this policy with being a "doper". There are successful hunters on both sides. The ones who are against just want to be able to handle their hounds the way they think is right. They don't want to be limited by a rule. I respect that. Most of the ones who are against just want to be able to use prednisone and banamine if they feel like their hound needs it due to swelling or minor injury. I think we would be better off either letting the hounds run on their own desire or just withdrawing them if they need medical treatment. Others disagree. I think we can all agree that nobody needs to be using anything listed in that first class of banned substances in the policy. Let's pass what we can agree on and move on.

Heath I wouldn't waste my time responding to these culls. Every one who watches this board knows they think they know everything amd just stick their foot in their ugly mouth every time they open it. Let um whine.

Prove there is a problem.
Has a rule or law been passed just for the heck of it?
Maybe. Why all this publicity if there is no problem.
Prove your point. Matters not to me. But, to a lot it does. Where is the confirmation that doping makes winners? Where is the confirmation that no doping levels the field? The ones for are the majority of the 3 day winners. What if a sample was pulled today at their kennel. How do they feel cheated if they are winning dope free and the hind titters are cheating. Is it puppy sales? Greed? Of course it could be. Maybe not.
Why cry about the food stamp people who choose not to work when you can have the food of your choice every meal by your sweat and blood? Heath, please answer this.

For evidence, consult every competitive sport involving animals or humans.

And again, one hunter getting cheated by another is not a strong reason to pass a drug policy. There are many more important reasons.

You may allow your dogs in the house. To me, they are just dogs. Not in my house and better perform or as it is with the third strike- you're outta here!

Do away or ban anything that is not labled for a pet or dog! Banamine is not labled to be used for a dog(Ban it) but anti-inflammatories as far as Deremaxx, Remadyl, Metacam, and so fourth should be allowed, no different than an athlete taking advil, aleve or something for soreness and pain. Dexamethasone, Prednisone and so fourth may be labled as to use for dog. Just food for thought... Me myself, if I run and put my dogs through a rough and vigorous training program, you dang right I will give them something for pain and inflammation! You know why, because I have a right to, I OWN IT!!!

Just for thought should i throw away my panacur in a tube,or my valbazen heck my ivermec cause none of them give me a ok label for dogs or there picture on it???and i have never seen a dosage or for dogs only on my b12 or dex either???help me please

Back to the top!!!

This is funny stuff!!

Mr. loveless, I waded threw the horsecrap on this thread, and got back to your original post you looking to get back at it.

I have been using testosterone injections like the major league ball players use. Man them dogs can run somethin.... We also preform blood transfusions on our derby hounds, we transfuse half july and the other half greyhound blood.... not cheap, but after they recover man they can run somethin....

These performance enhancements have allowed us to only run hounds when we feel like it, sometimes once a month or less, really saved in pen fees and gas!!

I can turn you on to some derby aged stuff, that has cheetah and greyhound blood flowing threw its veins, but is wrapped in a walker hide.

This business about doping is just ridiculous to us. And Heaths whole playing to the middle strategy....... Sure did'nt work for McCain and Palin, so why would it work here??

Outstanding post Mr. Prednizone!!

We have entered the next level of field trialing and it is Great!!!!

Thank You to all the backwoods vets that posted here with irrelevant information, you have made our choice clear!!!

To The Top!!!

Im with mr.loveless on this one has or can anyone define performance enhancing???cause non of the above are ???