After reading many post on the difference in champions what makes the speed and drive winner a champion? Is it the fact that he just got more crossings? What about how he or she got them crossings? Did the hound stay in the front all the time or did they have to get up the trail or down the road a bunch of times? I have heard people say they don't care if a hound has to climb a tree and jump out to get ahead thats what they want, and seen people brag on how thier hound was going to the front over and over again on spectator hill, and then win a speed and drive hunt. Is that a fox or coyote hound or is that a field trial hound. What about the one's that don't bark all the time, if they are not barking, if they have to take the same trail every time to get back to the front or jump from race to race that to me is cheating to win, kinda like a judge helping out, so how can you call a cheater a Champion? I know they are several hounds out there that are worthy of that title, but there are a lot more that are not. Is that the kind of hound you want in your pedigree? Just curious?

Kermi you still having flashbacks from running with the Mafia at O.V.'s pen aren't you, lmao.

Worm - I take it you dont have many champions in your kennel. Folks that have them like them and some folks that dont say they arent worth a hill of beans. It means alot to me, and as far as the pedigree I like to see it in there, I also like to make sure the stud is A. A proven producer of good hounds or B. I saw the hound compete and ran against the hound and think he is worthy of breeding to, as this stud may not have any off spring yet, and C. I will breed to hounds that arent champions if the are worthy, did it with Griangers Rita we bred her to Black John, after reading about him producing Bullet and Killer, wound up being a stellar cross, 5 Pups all 5 got lots of trophies, one made 2 time champion.

Be good
Lenny

Bird you said I didn't. Just heard from Jackson LA. hunter's will be able to hunt Homochita next year.

#1- Thats good news to hear on the LA -MISS Hunting Issue
#2- I like the speed and drive ch. Yes, I know that hounds falling out of tree's , jumping out of a plane and several other saying's that I can't remember right now are not the traits a real houndsman breeds for in a hound but neither are the countless {f} ch's that cant produce squat cause when they were made ch. they were leaf flipping loafers that couldn't stay hooked up in a hard race and won the hunt blowing and snorting on a ditchbank when a pack was roaring in the not to far distance.
Now I like a hard hunting classy hound but you would have a hard time convincing me that a hound that wins speed and drive isn't worthy of recognition. And I am a outside hunter, our hounds haven't ran in a pen other than field trials more than once in several weeks , more like a few months. I know the value of a good track running , hard hunting hound.
DEREK DUPRE

Mr. Lenny I don't, but I did win the Mississippi Governor's Cup in 1998 with a hound that I breed, raised his daddy and his grand daddy, never field trialed a whole bunch mostly sure enough fox hunted and coyote hunted on the outside. Can still find some blood in a few hounds around and I still have plenty of it in my hounds. Myself I listen to a race and if a hounds not barking are is only in the race here and there ain't worth much to me. The way I look at it foxhunting is a sport to listen to. That's just me. And I'm not afraid to go to a pen with 15 or 20 hounds and sit and listen, that's what I call letting the hound's do the talking. If you own a hound that don't bark, but gets all the first place crossings to me you ain't got ---- !!! And like I said they are some that deserve the Title of CH. but a lot more don't. And you can believe one thing if I ever win another trial it will be with a hound that deserve's it.

Derek, I don't recall saying I like a leaf flipping, snot popping hound that would not get in a race, I did not say that they were worthy of being a Ch. If they get seen they should be scratched for failing to hark, just like one of those speed demons that leave one race to go to another. But I have seen time's were one of them not so fast hounds that would pop some snot when them speed demons was on the road fixing to get srcatched, because they were to tired to hunt, save thier butt's more than once over the year's and to me he or she would be considered the champion of that hunt. And I'm not trying to convince nobody of nothing, I don't buy thier feed so I don't care what they want. But I want breed something like that just to win a field trial. Not knowing you at all I bet we like the same kind of hound the only difference the most I ever paid for a hound was $100 dollors and havn't bought but 5 since 1986. You can ask my brother about that, Kyle Ladner. Oh, Lenny don't have but 11 hounds between me and my buddy, we don't field trial much. But do enjoy listening to them run.

Worm , I agree with you 100% , I don't like the road running ambushing type hound , I think the cunning running scratch should be invoked especially in pen hunts. I think that each hound should be cast solo and show their ability to hunt and jump game .And they should have competitive speed. I will admit I have paid more than 100.00 for a hound, more than once to be honest. I know what your pointing at with the speed and drive ch , I was just pointing out the opposite end of the spectrum. I will say this , we have four field ch currently here at the kennel, one three day winner and one speed and drive ch. I doubt seriously that any of the bunch could hold a Q beam for the {s} ch.
DEREK DUPRE

Derek, I will bet your S&D CH. don't wait on something else to jump it either. That's why I said some do deserve the title. What's bad some don't have a clue to what we are actually talking about in a hound.

Bird, That's just one of them Obama supporters wanting to stir trouble.

Worm you guessed it she is as good a jump dog as we have and is getting to where she doesn't care for deer but still not deer proof
Derek

Hey Lurch the only reason Bird replied is because it hit a nerve. You know me I tell the truth, them youngsters can't take it sometimes, even when you don't mention no names. Yeah Derek had a couple of them before, just did not field trial them. Oh Lurch if I remember right that night at the trial I told you who was gonna win.